tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4399977939432386593.post7758469625165740055..comments2023-11-05T19:45:54.079+07:00Comments on Surviving Iron River: Surviving Iron River - RMC & UPNMChan Jun Shenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14111454761265367907noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4399977939432386593.post-57746048283522543692017-07-05T21:38:18.107+07:002017-07-05T21:38:18.107+07:00nice postnice postlizahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06035184100892779826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4399977939432386593.post-18379123604825384922017-06-12T10:52:22.611+07:002017-06-12T10:52:22.611+07:00OP Chan,
Well said. Keep it up.
OP75FOP Chan,<br />Well said. Keep it up. <br />OP75FAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17230475527778477991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4399977939432386593.post-71346322584695539902017-06-12T00:02:06.475+07:002017-06-12T00:02:06.475+07:00Very well said Tuan Chan. Sy nak tulis lebih kuran...Very well said Tuan Chan. Sy nak tulis lebih kurang gini laaa.. Tapi pasal dah lama tak kene asah, tak kene taji, abes dah tumpul vocabulary dan grammar sy. (alasan kadet). Hahahahaha.. RajE NagEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00607900571459190073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4399977939432386593.post-17630686323703515302017-06-11T22:33:57.776+07:002017-06-11T22:33:57.776+07:00Well said, buddy...Well said, buddy...dauszeckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03381079185330937930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4399977939432386593.post-87735434870413560722017-06-11T11:26:44.107+07:002017-06-11T11:26:44.107+07:00op chan, i have made my point. i will argue no mor...op chan, i have made my point. i will argue no more in public spaceGuyFawkes997https://www.blogger.com/profile/10395078380195761463noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4399977939432386593.post-72476552323430605372017-06-11T10:55:20.439+07:002017-06-11T10:55:20.439+07:00GuyFawkes997, well if we were to tone down the tra...GuyFawkes997, well if we were to tone down the training intensity, i think we allow ourselves to be at a lower potential. "Hell" was never about manhandling, hell in my point of view is "non body contact activities which is intense enough to cause soreness and sufferings, which has some beneficial outcome in terms of physical fitness". U can judge the Present Putera of RMC, the product of less intensity training. When the body is pushed to the limit, it builds character and mental strength. However, academic excellence should be the priority. No matter how well can a trainee survive hell, he is only as good as someone who has brawn and less brain. In the current warfare arena, we face close combat much lesser. It is all about long range firepower projection. But still, without the right character and mental strength, one cannot survive the stress in a combat zone. We can't be whispering to every single person in a battalion, make counseling sessions, conduct summer camp or motivational talk due to the time constraint. So, I still believe in the effectiveness of an "optimized hell", the intention is important. for instance, the only thing that separates a terrorist and a criminal is the "intention", one to spread ideology and another one is fully driven by personal gain. If life is not a bed full of roses, the battleground will never be a walk in the park. Chan Jun Shenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14111454761265367907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4399977939432386593.post-86679865612082050342017-06-10T19:49:56.200+07:002017-06-10T19:49:56.200+07:00op chan
my concern is that attitude like this woul...op chan<br />my concern is that attitude like this would lead to the escalation in intensity of the "hell". i worry that, if fate would have it, should you become an instructor, you would be telling your cadets "What you are getting now is only a small fraction, during my time....." does that sound familiar? and so the hell continuesGuyFawkes997https://www.blogger.com/profile/10395078380195761463noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4399977939432386593.post-17937897037815527142017-06-10T18:37:46.496+07:002017-06-10T18:37:46.496+07:00dear op chan
thank you for responding to my postin...dear op chan<br />thank you for responding to my postings. if you care to have further discussion, i would be honored, pls write to 997guyfawkes@gmail.com<br />tq<br />opGuyFawkes997https://www.blogger.com/profile/10395078380195761463noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4399977939432386593.post-69954003562845631152017-06-10T17:57:57.949+07:002017-06-10T17:57:57.949+07:00Sirs and gentlemen, I appreciate your reply. May b...Sirs and gentlemen, I appreciate your reply. May be i didn't write it well or emphasize enough that I am against what had happened to Officer Cadet Zulfarhan. I never had the intention to back those criminals up. My intention is to explain our lives in the camp, and also to enlighten the public that not all UPNM cadets are bad apples. I am sorry if my article lead u to think that I am supporting ragging. Just as sir Hobbir1964 mentioned, it is supposed to deconstruct and reconstruct but somehow it did not happen. I dare not comment to much about Officer Cadet Zulfarhan's case because the investigation is on going and I believe it is better to reserve my comment because I don't want to be like the keyboard warriors making assumptions. Again, my apology if my article misled GuyFawkes997 to think that I agreeing with what is going on in UPNM. I did mention that everyone must play their part to stop this, at the last few para. No? Chan Jun Shenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14111454761265367907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4399977939432386593.post-29044882956411425762017-06-10T17:35:32.376+07:002017-06-10T17:35:32.376+07:00you did ask the right question, however, "how...you did ask the right question, however, "how did that happen?" because knowing that would put you on the right track to put things right, and right the wrongsGuyFawkes997https://www.blogger.com/profile/10395078380195761463noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4399977939432386593.post-28274363121452196652017-06-10T17:35:31.679+07:002017-06-10T17:35:31.679+07:00OP Chan, I am encouraged to see a budding writing ...OP Chan, I am encouraged to see a budding writing culture emerge amongst military men. Kudos.<br /><br />Now, we must face a few facts, regardless of our experiences in the military.<br /><br />All of us who stand here as those who have served or serving still, have as a common thread the fact that we endured whatever we faced. And even though I am not an OP, I am amongst the very last few batches who trained in RMC with army cadets as infantry first, before being commissioned into the sister services, my branch being the air force. We all "spoke the same language" as in army speak. And wearing the "teh tarik" uniform as an air force cadet, the fact that we would get "extra" compared to army cadets was assured, and received without animosity. True to the justifications of our seniors and instructors, once past the Pintu Munip, we would never be yoked with company support weapons ever again.<br /><br />While we can be proud or gloat, the choice being the by-product of maturity, we must admit that traditions and character building have to be balanced against right and wrong.<br /><br />Were that not the case, ill-treatment of a junior officer (officer being subject to finer interpretations) would not be an offense under the Armed Forces Act. I do not know if the rules had changed in your time, but when I trained in Cadet Wing RMC, officer cadets, while not being commissioned yet, were subject to the Act 72 and liable to be punished according to the same schedules contained in the RP and His Majesty's Gazette as applicable to commissioned officers.<br /><br />What happenned in UPNM has certainly sullied the aura of what should have been a finer institution of higher learning. The fact is, even in my days we would watch the Chiefs Of Service meet in the academic block to discuss the maturing of RMC into an academy. Perhaps an extension of this evolution is UPNM and thereby I feel for the institution, albeit with less fervour than for RMC, my alma mater. Perhaps if the selection of officer cadets into UPNM were returned to the military instead of UPU, the margin of error in this area can be narrowed.<br /><br />Ragging is often essential for many reasons. RMC had a secondary interpretation as Ragging Must Carry-on! To wit we have character building, bonding, the discernment between reticence and disclosure and much more. But ragging while initially intended to deconstruct, is aimed to subsequently reconstruct. There was a time, to keep ragging within the fine bounds of regimentation and prevent the spillover into inhumane acts, Battalion Commanders and COs would peruse the "orientation programme"(s) and sign off on them. All that was done was done with everyones' eyes open and instances of matters being taken into one's own hands were within the realms of damage control.<br /><br />And now,this is where the incident has turned ugly. I think you know where I am headed, in that we are describing two creatures with different natures, where deconstruciont-reconstruction were both overtaken by only destruction. At the heart of it, the military is essentially an organisation for the management of violence and none of us will put it as otherwise. With such firepower and concentration, however, without managing violence, we descend into being a rabble. Ragging is what it is, while this tragedy with Paan is a consequence of such a creature unleashed as to have become an utter beast.<br /><br />Walking down memory lane is one thing. But a crime has been committed. A life has been needlessly lost.<br /><br />A soldier does not kill his mate. <br /><br />Continue writing OP Chan. I'm guessing that just like me, this isn't your first published works, and likely as not, we may both be occupying bygone space in The Bugler.<br /><br />Be well sir.hobbit1964https://www.blogger.com/profile/04030529322509686268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4399977939432386593.post-28371107557720516942017-06-10T17:31:12.601+07:002017-06-10T17:31:12.601+07:00This comment has been removed by the author.hobbit1964https://www.blogger.com/profile/04030529322509686268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4399977939432386593.post-15373486664445936842017-06-10T17:25:55.497+07:002017-06-10T17:25:55.497+07:00...said one who did not get dead from the system.
......said one who did not get dead from the system.<br />what have you to say to zulfarhan's family, may i ask?GuyFawkes997https://www.blogger.com/profile/10395078380195761463noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4399977939432386593.post-54757640900458839072017-06-10T14:38:48.564+07:002017-06-10T14:38:48.564+07:00You never fail to impress me Jr OP Chan. Ok kau n...You never fail to impress me Jr OP Chan. Ok kau nampak tiang tu Boy??? ... Eh silap side. Next Nasi Ayam is on me! <br /><br />Well written OP. Serve to lead.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17130798396071270889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4399977939432386593.post-64489282527526168662017-06-10T14:16:09.500+07:002017-06-10T14:16:09.500+07:00Well said bro...only yesterday was an easy day.......Well said bro...only yesterday was an easy day....sacrifice our self heart and soul for serving to our king and sovereignty of Malaysia.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00286617215334872474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4399977939432386593.post-37923845498589748322017-06-10T10:53:23.866+07:002017-06-10T10:53:23.866+07:00Nice read and better understanding as Im a civilia...Nice read and better understanding as Im a civilian. I respect you and your comrades on all your training and sacrifices for the people and the country. I really respect your training and training methods to build character and strength to able you guys to protect the nation.<br />Its just that like what you said the manhandling, bullying and ragging is not part of your syllabus. And this are not done by trained officers but actually just (untrained but think they know limits and stuff) seniors. And also the culture of juniors/lower ranked cadets have to obey to the higher rank no matter what? ( I know you need that in an Army or War ) But when done wrongly can go overboard and enjoyment to some and a mistake can cause death or permanent damage. When it happens to your loved ones or someone you know its even more tragic.<br />Zulfarhan's father so proud and full of praises of UPNM when he enrolled till the even after his death as the first news he got was that he was beaten to death in Bangi. Things that happened in there/ able to happen in there is what that needs to change. There are too many dots already on that white piece of paper you mentioned.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08930748563615839110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4399977939432386593.post-43175337714456565192017-06-10T08:56:18.632+07:002017-06-10T08:56:18.632+07:00Well said sirWell said sirAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14106528619856173972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4399977939432386593.post-18117868986072459012017-06-10T06:27:56.234+07:002017-06-10T06:27:56.234+07:00Of course it doesn't. The Ashantee acts that t...Of course it doesn't. The Ashantee acts that the men did to their own defies esprit de corps, and highly deplorable by any standard.<br /><br />However, I guess the message that OP Chan wanted to relay is that ragging (either mental or physical exertion) is still an essential culture in any regimental body, and the entire exercise shouldn't be a walk in the park.<br /><br />I feel very sorry for the loss of the cadet, and wish his family to stay strong.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00958692967296754982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4399977939432386593.post-48782380610133229172017-06-10T05:31:21.737+07:002017-06-10T05:31:21.737+07:00Well done OP Chan.. yeah betul tu... kena masuk du...Well done OP Chan.. yeah betul tu... kena masuk dulu baru boleh nak komen... tak rasa tak tau... kan... apa pun buli dan manhandling tu bukan silap organisasi tapi sikap diri sendiri... kalau first batch pun dah mulakan... <br />Apa pun I salute you bro...<br /><br />RMC 94-95<br />ATMA 96-99 (keluar baris awal... hehe)ayop25https://www.blogger.com/profile/11702706767961361438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4399977939432386593.post-69832415785305859582017-06-10T04:46:51.004+07:002017-06-10T04:46:51.004+07:00Very well said OP Chan.Very well said OP Chan.Khalid Ismailhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07511173937541372804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4399977939432386593.post-10882338368679122132017-06-09T23:31:53.669+07:002017-06-09T23:31:53.669+07:00Read the essay again with an open mind and free of...Read the essay again with an open mind and free of judgemental thoughts. OP Chan himself said what they did was overboard. He didnt give any rights there. Please respect his opinion and take yours somewhere else where keyboard warriors and netizens can talk about the taste of murtabak whilst none of you tasted it. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04056403638196878313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4399977939432386593.post-45544837590137887482017-06-09T22:56:24.993+07:002017-06-09T22:56:24.993+07:00but that doesnt gives right to torture to death as...but that doesnt gives right to torture to death as what happened in Sekolah Teknik Kuala Lumpur in 1980s as well as the latest at Upnm....Six Ace Strategyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01196639436827368695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4399977939432386593.post-65145893214761738362017-06-09T22:33:51.499+07:002017-06-09T22:33:51.499+07:00thank u Kae Vin Goh, Anan Subra, Suhaimi Saleh, Ab...thank u Kae Vin Goh, Anan Subra, Suhaimi Saleh, Abang MB, Ahmad Jais, Saladin Kamarudin, Cik Halia, Fikri Fauzi, Karaeng Manessa. Sirs and ladies, Thank you for reading this slightly lengthy post. <br /><br />Fadil_RH Sir, thank you for sharing the current situation. I wrote it based on what I saw during my time and things could have changed. As an Alumni, i believe sir knows what is best for the cadet and I hope the newly structured module could make better officers and score better grades than us seniors who went through the ancient module. Chan Jun Shenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14111454761265367907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4399977939432386593.post-79276352671374801962017-06-09T22:21:06.468+07:002017-06-09T22:21:06.468+07:00Well said OP Chan. No civilian can understand our ...Well said OP Chan. No civilian can understand our culture. My family didn't expect me to join the army in 1977. I was seen sort of like a softie, but they were surprised of my success in the trainings I go through in YLPPK/ PRE-OCTU n RMC Cadets Wing n later PLPK Sg Udang. You've said it all. Proud of you young man! Bravo. Karaeng Manessa Al Rashidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02278280787916963606noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4399977939432386593.post-19532957369444041802017-06-09T21:15:07.551+07:002017-06-09T21:15:07.551+07:00That was hillarious writing bro. Salam perkenalan ...That was hillarious writing bro. Salam perkenalan ex 2003 ATMA (B4 upgraded to UPNM)fikri.fauzi1985https://www.blogger.com/profile/02339691132487704751noreply@blogger.com